[faqir]

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

[Ibn Arabi]

Do you know the reference for the hadith he quotes as إن عند رأسي ملكا يبلغني الصلاة علي من أمتي إلا يوم الجمعة فإني أسمع بإذني وأرد بلساني ("At my head there is an angel that conveys salah upon me from my Ummah except on Friday: I hear with my ears and I respond with my tongue")?

This post has been edited by Ibn Arabi: 13 March 2010 - 11:27 AM

[abulhussain]

searching on the internet gave me some shia websites quoting that alleged hadeeth
click here

Name of the book is المجموعة المباركة by عبدة محمد

very little is known about the author of the book or the isnaad of the narrations in the book

there is a fatwa against the book
http://www.islamway....&fatwa_id=32503

This post has been edited by abulhussain: 13 March 2010 - 05:41 PM

[speedy]

salamu alaykum,

Yes would really like to see reference for this hadith.

Also if this hadith is true, what makes friday so special? All other days of the week the prophet(saw) hears and sees and knows everyones actions AND angels present to him, but on Friday the angels don't present it to him? Doesn't that make the other days more special than Friday?

[faqir]

i asked shaykh Gibril

Quote

There is no such hadith but rather this is a correct meaning inferred from the
authentic narrations.

I believe Sayyid Muhammad was not quoting a hadith literally but wording the
collective gist of others hadiths as if that gist were being said verbatim by
the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace. How many times the great muffasirun
do the same thing when explaining the words of Allah subhan wa taala. However,
when done with hadith, it would be better to say: "As if he were saying..." lest
people mistake the reconstructed paraphrase for a hadith.

The hadiths in question are:

من سلم علي عند قبري سمعته ومن صلى علي نائياً أبلغته

Man sallama `alayya `inda qabri sami`tuhu wa-man salla `alayya na'iyan
ublightuhu.

which means:

"Whoever greets me at my grave, I hear him; and whoever invokes blessings on me
from afar it is conveyed to me."

Ibn Hajar declared its chain good (sanad jayyid) in Fath al-Bari (1989 ed.
6:379=1959 ed. 6:488).

Also:

أكثروا علي من الصلاة يوم الجمعة وليلة الجمعة فإن صلاتكم معروضة علي

which means:

"Invoke abundant blessings on me on the day and night of Jumua for your
invocations are shown to me"

The above is sahih by general agreement.

another wording states:

وإِن أَحداً لا يصلي علي فيه إِلا عرضت علي صلاته حتى يفرغ منها

which means:

"and none invokes blessing on me on that day except his invocation is shown to
me until he finishes."

This addition is broken-chained but the hadith master Shihab al-Din al-Busiri
declared it sound in view of its corroborants.

Since the first hadith said that blessings from afar are conveyed to him anyway,
it means that on the day of Jumua there is one or more additional meanings, such
as instantaneity and directness; and Allah knows best.

Also:

إن لله في الارض ملائكة سياحين يبلغوني من امتي السلام

"Truly Allah has angels roaming the earth who convey to me the salam of my
Umma."

Also considered sahih by general agreement.

The collected gist of these hadiths is that the Prophet, upon him peace, on any
day of the week, hears without intermediary only if salam is pronounced at his
grave, and from afar only through the conveyance of the angels; except on Jumua,
at which time he hears directly from afar as well, due to the immense merit of
that day.

This is the understanding of the authorities such Ibn Hajar al-Haytami in
al-Durr al-Nadid, al-Qastallani in Masalik al-Hunafa, and Ibn `Allan al-Siddiqi
in al-Futuhat al-Ilahiyya in commentary of the hadith of Jumua.

And Allah knows best.

[Ibn Arabi]

faqir, on 14 March 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

The collected gist of these hadiths is that the Prophet, upon him peace, on any day of the week, hears without intermediary only if salam is pronounced at his grave, and from afar only through the conveyance of the angels; except on Jumua, at which time he hears directly from afar as well, due to the immense merit of that day.

There seems to me a difference between "hearing with my ears" as SHAYKH al-Yaqoubi incorrectly quoted the Prophet saying and having something "shown (ma'ruda) to me" on Friday as in the sahih hadith. Can you ask SHAYKH Gibril Haddad how 'ard (showing) equates with sama' (hearing) and if those particular authorities he cites mentions direct sama' as opposed to indirect 'ard? Even if the "showing" to the Prophet was exceptional for Friday, while "conveying" is the norm for all other days, "showing" is still done through an intermediary and is not "direct" as claimed here [e.g. just as television is not direct viewing or audition].

[faqir]

As-salamu 'alaykum,
Why would 'showing' not include hearing of the sound? Also how did you come to the definitive conclusion that the showing must be indirect through a medium like a television? Based on the narrations provided I fail to see why the opposite cannot be possibly true although ultimately Allah is the creator of everything.... I too would also like to see what the commentaries mentioned by sh gibril say.

[Ibn Ajibah]

Ibn Arabi, do you think the modality [kayfiya] is the all-important factor in this issue?

[Abu Haneefa]

Assalamu^alaykum

I just had to listen to it again, and it does appear that the Sheikh is saying its a hadeeth. I may be wrong someone else please listen to it again and let me know what you think.

I think we can all agree that this is from the realms of possibility, but whether it is something which is established by clear decisive texts is another matter(in reference to the friday report of hearing and responding). However if scholars in the past have also stated this then perhaps its another one of those issues in which there is a difference of opinion?

This post has been edited by Abu Haneefa: 15 March 2010 - 04:31 PM

[Ibn Ajibah]

What makes people feel uneasy about this, the modality or the act of ascrbing this to the Prophet--sallAllah 'alayhi was sallam--as a hadith, or both?

[Abu Haneefa]

Assalamu^alaykum

I dont think its an issue about anyone feeling uneasy, well not for me anyway. I think its more of an issue between the brothers of the deobandi and bareillawi viewpoint.

Sometimes you get caught between the 2 bickering about similar issues. Its always good to know more about a specific issue so you can help ease the tension between them.

[Abu Haneefa]

Assalamu^alaykum

Coming back to this issue, I had sent the link to a few brothers who speak arabic and asked them about their opinion. They also agree that even though the lecture is in english it appears the Sheikh when quoting the arabic is passing the statement off as a hadeeth and not summarising the various narrations as Sheikh Gibril has reported to have stated.

We now have individuals who when discussing similar issues now resort to 'Well Sheikh Yaqubi said it'..and that is sufficient for them, however for others this is not acceptable.

I read the work by Sheikh Al Alawi 'Notions that must be corrected' and he mentions this topic and brings forth many narrations but not this particular one being mentioned by the Sheikh.

My understanding is that the Angels convey the salams as based on the evidence I have seen, and believe this to be the more accurate position. If others believe contrary based on other supporting evidences then I would be interested in seeing them Inshallah.

[abulhussain]

something relevant on this topic

http://www.marifah.n...834&#entry13834

Abul Hussain

[faqir]

Glad Tidings
For Those Who Affectionately Greet the Beloved Prophet
(Allah grant him peace and blessings)
& Seek His Beautiful Vision

[ShahAliShah]

Even if angels convey sallawat or not, hearing of Prophet Muhammed Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam is not limited to the angels because Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam is Hazir and Nazir.

On the day of Aqhirah, Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam will be a witness for all other Prophets alaihimusalaam over their nations. But the question is how can Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam be made a witness when his birth had not even taken place and a witness has to be present and has to see the incident ?

This proves not only the hearing/seeing but also presence of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and if some one refuses this, then he is opposing Allah's deed in Aqhirah.