[Murat Yazici]

I have listended to a video by Mr. Harun Yahya:

http://www.harunyahy...AH_HER_YERDEDIR

Here he uses the following expressions:

"Allah is everywhere"

"Allah is here right now"

"There is no place at which Allah is not present"

He then contradicts himself by saying "Allah is without time and without place."

My impression is, he is confused and he does not know the exact meanings and consequences of his words. His statements, however, are very dangerous.

I have answered his talk in my blog in Turkish:

http://muratyazici.b...lgisizligi.html

The following is what I wrote in another forum:

From the famous basic aqidah (creed) and fiqh book Miftahu'l-Janna known as "Mızraklı İlmihal" and widely distributed and read during the Osmanlı (Ottoman) times:

"If somebody says that there is no place empty of Allah or Allah is in the sky, he becomes kafir [apostate]." (Miftahu'l-Janna, Bedir Publishing, Istanbul, p. 116)

Imam Birgivi rahimahullah (d. 981/1573) states:

"If a person says (Allahu ta'ala is my witness in the sky) he/she becomes kafir. Because, Allahu ta'ala is exalted beyond [being in a] makan [place]." (Vasiyyatname of Birgivi, Bedir Publishing, Istanbul, p. 52)

These two books have been read, recommended, approved, and distributed by the Osmanlı ulama (scholars) over several centuries. This is the belief of Sunni Muslims.

Let me add that the following statement can also be found in al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya:

"If somebody says that there is no place empty of Allah, he becomes kafir."

Imam Rabbani (Mujaddid-e-Alf Thani) rahimahullah states:

"Allahu ta'ala exists without time, without place, without direction. Allahu ta'ala is the Creator of all times, places, and directions." (Maktubat, volume: 2, letter: 67)

Those who understand Turkish, please see the following compilation of quotes from numerous Ahl al-Sunna scholars:

http://muratyazici.b...lemek-caiz.html

[IrfanibnIsmail]

Have you tried mailing this to their website to get a clarification from their side ? Or have you asked some heavy weight scholars from your country to get a clarification ?

wa salaam

[DefendingIslam]

Salam Alaykum,

An explanation should be sought for these statements. However, I also get the feeling that Harun Yahya is not an expert nor even authorized in the fields of Aqeedah he is talking about. This is also obvious from the way he says that there will be another prophet and other mind-boggling things.

This is the sign of our times. The people talking on behalf of Islam are deviants and deviators, leading people astray and even into disbelief with the unfounded and baseless comments they make about Islam. The lay Muslim people, who know no better, just follow whoever has a better media following. May Allah save us from the trials of this, and make us die on Iman and Islam.

[Light]

E-Mail Reply from

info@harunyahya.com

Quote:

“The misunderstandng probably lies at this point: \"Allah’s self is something different. But the manifestations of Allah are everywhere.\" This is not in contradiction with the Quran al Kareem, and the sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad (saas). If someone enters a room and says Allah is not there, he is denying Allah. The manifestations of Allah are in that room and everywhere. Wherever you may turn, manifestations of Allah are there. Several verses of the Qur’an state that Allah pervades all places, that He is closer to us than our own jugular veins, and that we will see His face wherever we look. For example, in verse 255 of Surat al-Baqara Allah says \"... His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth....\" Verse 92 of Surah Hud says, \"...But my Lord encompasses everything that you do\" meaning that Allah also pervades what people do. The truth revealed in the Qur’an is clear: Allah is not only in the skies. Allah is He Who enfolds and pervades all places. This knowledge is provided to us by way of the Qur’an. Describing the reality of the secret behind matter will enable people to better understand these verses. People who realize that matter is not an absolute entity will realize with complete clarity that Allah is everywhere at any moment, that He sees and hears them at all moments, that He witnesses all things and is closer to them than their own jugular veins, and that He hears the prayers of those who pray.

Please read this link:
http://us1.harunyahy...roductId/20320/

Salam ”

[End of Quote]

[Murat Yazici]

DefendingIslam, on 05 March 2010 - 05:22 AM, said:

However, I also get the feeling that Harun Yahya is not an expert nor even authorized in the fields of Aqeedah he is talking about. This is also obvious from the way he says that there will be another prophet and other mind-boggling things.

Here is a summary of his life (in Turkish):

http://www.harunyahy...sss_yazar01.htm

Here it is said that he attended university and his field was "Beautiful Arts." That phrase means "drawing, sculpture, music, internal decoration, ..." in Turkish.

See also:

http://www.harunyahy...m/theauthor.php

There is no mention of any training in religious sciences or of any teacher whatsoever.

If anybody has any knowledge of from whom Mr. Adnan Oktar got his religious education, I would like to learn.

This post has been edited by Murat Yazici: 12 March 2010 - 02:43 PM

[Light]

COMMENTS BY SHEIKH NAZIM KIBRISI REGARDING MR. ADNAN OKTAR

Quote:

"ADNAN OKTAR: Look, I do just as he said. I have a special room and I do read it standing up. I have been doing the same thing for years. When Allah inspires information in me, I write it down. That is how Sheikh Nazim told me to do, and I do it."

Read the full article: HERE

[DefendingIslam]

Quote

The truth revealed in the Qur’an is clear: Allah is not only in the skies

This is another quote that needs explanation, if it can be given.

[Murat Yazici]

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 05:36 PM, said:

COMMENTS BY SHEIKH NAZIM KIBRISI REGARDING MR. ADNAN OKTAR

Quote:

"ADNAN OKTAR: Look, I do just as he said. I have a special room and I do read it standing up. I have been doing the same thing for years. When Allah inspires information in me, I write it down. That is how Sheikh Nazim told me to do, and I do it."

Read the full article: HERE

I don't quite understand: Does Mr. Oktar have ijazat from Sh. Kıbrısi?

Does he have any religious education?

My understanding is he is an "internal decorator/architect."

***

We read the following in the link you provided:

Allah has sent disasters on everyone who fought me and Allah removed their peace of mind. Allah closed their minds, made them breft of foresight and sent them sickness and many troubles. Insha'Allah. I did not pray against them, but Allah sent scourges down on them. Let society think about it. Allah sent scourges down on each and everyone.

I say: There is no greater disaster than saying things like "Allah is in the sky" or "Allah is everywhere." As I have explained above, Mr. Oktar's statements are confusing and contradictory. Perhaps by ascribing some majaz meanings to these statements, one might try to save Mr. Oktar. But, who will save the masses that imitate and repeat such kufr statements?

This post has been edited by Murat Yazici: 13 March 2010 - 12:22 PM

[IrfanibnIsmail]

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

E-Mail Reply from

info@harunyahya.com

Quote:

“The misunderstandng probably lies at this point: \"Allah’s self is something different. But the manifestations of Allah are everywhere.\" This is not in contradiction with the Quran al Kareem, and the sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad (saas). If someone enters a room and says Allah is not there, he is denying Allah. The manifestations of Allah are in that room and everywhere. Wherever you may turn, manifestations of Allah are there. Several verses of the Qur’an state that Allah pervades all places, that He is closer to us than our own jugular veins, and that we will see His face wherever we look. For example, in verse 255 of Surat al-Baqara Allah says \"... His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth....\" Verse 92 of Surah Hud says, \"...But my Lord encompasses everything that you do\" meaning that Allah also pervades what people do. The truth revealed in the Qur’an is clear: Allah is not only in the skies. Allah is He Who enfolds and pervades all places. This knowledge is provided to us by way of the Qur’an. Describing the reality of the secret behind matter will enable people to better understand these verses. People who realize that matter is not an absolute entity will realize with complete clarity that Allah is everywhere at any moment, that He sees and hears them at all moments, that He witnesses all things and is closer to them than their own jugular veins, and that He hears the prayers of those who pray.

Please read this link:
http://us1.harunyahy...roductId/20320/

Salam ”

[End of Quote]

This is what i thought he would have meant. Harun Yahya is not refering to Allahu Taala in the sense of location. He is refering to the manifestation of Allah's attributes like Power, Knowledge, Mercy, etc in creation. Thanks for the post.

wa salaam

This post has been edited by IrfanibnIsmail: 13 March 2010 - 12:48 PM

[Murat Yazici]

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

E-Mail Reply from

info@harunyahya.com

Quote:

"The misunderstandng probably lies at this point: \"Allah's self is something different. But the manifestations of Allah are everywhere.\"

Then, why not just say "manifestations of Allah are everywhere" instead of "Allah is everywhere?"

Why make additions to religion? The statement ""Allah is everywhere" is a different statement and is extremely dangerous.

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

This is not in contradiction with the Quran al Kareem, and the sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad (saas). If someone enters a room and says Allah is not there, he is denying Allah.

So, if one says "Allah is not in the intestine of a pig," he is denying Allah? To affirm Allah's existence, he must say "Allah is in the pig's intestine?" (Allahu ta'ala is exalted beyond such statements).

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

The manifestations of Allah are in that room and everywhere. Wherever you may turn, manifestations of Allah are there.

Yes, His creations/manifestations can be seen everywhere. But, the following are two different sentences:

1. The manifestations of Allah are everywhere
2. Allah is everywhere

The second sentence is not permissible.

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

Several verses of the Qur'an state that Allah pervades all places, that He is closer to us than our own jugular veins, and that we will see His face wherever we look.

"Face?" This is a word in English and does not exist in Qur'an al-Kareem.

If he means "wajh," then he should prove that it is permissible to write "face" instead of "wajh" (I would not write "face").

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

For example, in verse 255 of Surat al-Baqara Allah says \"... His Footstool encompasses the heavens and the earth....\" Verse 92 of Surah Hud says, \"...But my Lord encompasses everything that you do\" meaning that Allah also pervades what people do.

Is it permissible to write the English word "Footstool?"

According to one dictionary I checked,

Footstool= A low stool to support the feet of one when sitting.

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

The truth revealed in the Qur'an is clear: Allah is not only in the skies.

In his talk (in the video in Turkish), he was trying to refute Wahhabis who attribute "upward direction" to Allahu ta'ala and say things like "Allah is in the sky." This sentence seems to be related to his argument there. By saying that "Allah is everywhere" he is also confirming that "Allah is in the skies" since "skies" are included in "everywhere."

I don't know of any Ahl al-Sunna scholar who wrote things like this.

Light, on 12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

Allah is He Who enfolds and pervades all places. This knowledge is provided to us by way of the Qur'an. Describing the reality of the secret behind matter will enable people to better understand these verses. People who realize that matter is not an absolute entity will realize with complete clarity that Allah is everywhere at any moment, that He sees and hears them at all moments, that He witnesses all things and is closer to them than their own jugular veins, and that He hears the prayers of those who pray.

Please read this link:
http://us1.harunyahy...roductId/20320/

Salam "

[End of Quote]

Again, he is repeating the statement "Allah is everywhere at any moment." I have already given quotes from well-known books showing that it is not permissible to say so.

At one place he says "Allah is everywhere," and then elsewhere he says "Allah is without time and without place."

According to this, He is at every place but He is without place! "Confused and confusing" was the right title for this thread.

We say only what Islamic scholars say (and we don't add anything to what they have said): Allahu ta'ala exists without place, without direction, without time. He is the Creator of time and all places.

After I placed my criticism in my blog in Turkish, I have received some e-mails from his followers/readers in Turkey. They seem to be trying to prove to me that he does not mean "Allah is everywhere" when he says "Allah is everywhere." I say: Then, please, do not say "Allah is everywhere" if that's not what you mean.

***

Ibn Hajar states:

Some of the Mu`tazila have claimed that Allah was everywhere on the basis of the hadith "If one of you stands in prayer, let him not spit in front of him for Allah is in front of him." This is evident ignorance, because the hadith then states that he should spit under his foot, which invalidates their principle. The hadith also constitutes a refutation of those who say that Allah is on the Arsh in person (bi dhatih).

Source: Footnote 107 on p. 45 in the translation of Al-Bayhaqi's "Al-Asma' wa al-Sifat."

This post has been edited by Murat Yazici: 13 March 2010 - 03:15 PM

[absalih]

This issue is complex.The shafii scholars of my land,Malabar, one of the traditional homelands of Shafii Schools, declared a known sufi ,Syed NooriSha Hyderabadi,as heretic(ahlul bid'a),as the later held this view that 'Allah is everywhere like sugar mixed with milk'.I think, this belief came from a deviated interpretation of the doctrine of 'Wahdatul Wujud' which is something of a vision and not an article of faith.
This issue has both theological and sufi interpretations.

As regards to the first, Syed 'Abdul Hakim Arwasi.d.1362.AH.Turkey,one of the greatest last Osmanli scholars and a great Naqshbandi sufi as well, wrote:

Quote

Dear Ali Bey, my brother in both worlds!

I have received your last letter. It has pleased me very much. I have added my salams to my benedictions over you. In an utterly beautiful manner you asked a question at the end of your letter.

Question: It is written in Baba Dagi, which is the translation of the book Halabi, and in Birghiwi Vasiyetnamesi, [and in the fatwa of Bazaziyya,] "If a person says that the souls of Awliya are present here, he becomes a disbeliever." On the other hand, the saying, "The soul of our master is present and overlooking here," is famous among men of tasawwuf. How can these two words be reconciled?

Answer: Sir! What these two books say is right. Both books are valuable. Explaining the statement, "The early scholars said, 'A person who claims that the souls of shaikhs are present, so they know, will be a disbeliever,' "Kadi zada Ahmad Effendi 'rahmatullahi ta'ala 'alaih' says in his annotation to Birghiwi Vasiyetnamesi, "This statement is true because the soul's being present is a ghaib (unknown event). The person will be a disbeliever because he speaks surely about something which is ghaib." In fact, as it is seen here, the thing which causes disbelief is saying that the souls are present, not to believe that the souls will be present. That is, he will be a disbeliever, because, even though he does not know that the souls are present, he gives a report about the ghaib by saying that they are present. In order to explain that this is so, they say that Allahu ta'ala is present and overlooking all the time and everywhere, However, Allahu ta'ala is not with time or with place. Then, this statement is not as it seems to be, but it is a metaphor. That is, it means that He is present [exists] and overlooking [sees] without time and without place, that is, without Him being at any place. Otherwise, Allahu ta'ala would be considered to be with time and with place, whereas He is not.

Allahu ta'ala, being Hayy, 'Alim, Qadir and Mutakallim, always exists and always sees in infinite time. As His Attributes, Life, Knowledge, Power and Speech are without time and without place, so His being present and overlooking is without time and without place. So is the case with all the attributes of Allahu ta'ala. Neither before them nor after them is there nonexistence. For example, He is present, and He was not absent before this presence. And after this there will not be a lifelessness, that is, death, or unawareness, nor will there be absence. Like Him, His attributes are eternal in the past and in the future, too. That is, they always exist. No one else's attributes are like His attributes.

Angels, the souls of prophets 'alaihimussalam' and of Awliya, and the souls of pious Muslims are present at any place where they are summoned to, no matter who calls them, where and in what state he is, and they help him. An example of this is Hadrat Khizir's going to the rescue of those who are in trouble. So is the case with Fakhr-i alam's 'sall- Allahu alaihi wa sallam' going to the rescue of each of his Ummat, especially at the time of death. So is the case with Hadrat Azrail's reaching everywhere every moment in order to take away the souls [lives]. And so is the case with each Murshid-i kamil's reaching to rescue his disciples; these are with time and place and they are not eternal in the past or in the future. Nor are they continuous. They were nonexistent before being present. And they will cease to exist after a while. There is a great difference between Allah's being present and souls' being present. No one is present like Allah's being present. So are all the attributes of Allahu ta'ala. Neither an angel nor a nabi nor a Rasul nor a Wali nor a pious Muslim has any share from any of Allah's attributes.

Devotees who had not reached the grades of the knowledge of being a Wali used to be taught that the souls of murshids would come to their rescue wherever and whenever they were called. The soul was absent before it became present there. And it would be absent some time later. Allahu ta'ala is present not like the presence of souls. For such a presence is with time and with place. Nor can souls be present like the presence of Allahu ta'ala. For, Allah's presence is not with time or with place, but it is eternal in the past and in the future.

Such valuable books as Birghiwi Vasiyetnamesi and the like mean to say that:

If a person says that his murshid is present "eternally in the past and in the future," he will become a disbeliever. But they mean to say, "Allahu ta'ala has given my murshid's soul such a power that he will be present to rescue me wherever and whenever I call upon him."

As it is seen, from that time till today, whenever he has been called by anyone, especially by owners of kashf and shuhud, at any part of the world, Fakhr-i alam 'sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam' has arrived to rescue them. Hadrat Khizir's soul has come to the rescue of some of those who called him. Angels are present whenever and wherever they want at the same moment to take away souls [lives]. It is written in the book Mizan-ul-kubra that Abul- Hasan Ali Shadhili 'quddisa sirruh', leader of the path of Shadhiliyya, said, "Every moment the blessed face of our Prophet 'sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam' is present before my eyes."

What the books write is true. Yet what the men of tasawwuf say is different. That is, it is disbelief to say that the souls of Awliya are present like Allahu ta'ala. Nobody is knowing, powerful, speaking, or present like Allah's being knowing, powerful, speaking and present. Allah's knowledge, or life, or power, or speech, or presence is a knowledge, a life, a power, a speech, or a presence which is suitable for Allahu ta'ala, and so are all His other attributes. But creatures' life, knowledge, power and speech are like themselves, of recent occurrence, with time and place, transient, and dependent upon various conditions. Nevertheless, it is said that prophets 'alaihimussalam', Awliya 'alaihimurridwan', Ulama 'alaihimurrahma' and all Muslims 'asla ha-humullah' are knowing, living, powerful, present and existing. But it does not mean that they are like Allah's being knowing, alive, powerful, present and existing. There is great difference between Allah's being present and the Awliya's souls' being present. At the time when these books were written those ignorant men of tariqat had been saying such words. They had been saying that their masters were present and overlooking in order to represent themselves as men of tasawwuf. The savants of the din, authors of the books of fiqh prevented this grave sin from spreading by writing so. However, our imams of din, who are greater than these, explained the matter more generally, in more detail and more properly. Nobody is Allah's partner in His attributes. All these are included in the expression La ilaha il-lallah. That is, there is nobody worthy of worship but Allahu ta'ala, who has no partner in any of His attributes. If this meaning is pondered over well, the problem will be solved on this basis"

http://www.hizmetboo...e/bliss3_32.htm
I have collected the views of other men of Reality too.If any one is interested I may explain them.Slam

This post has been edited by absalih: 22 July 2010 - 03:16 AM