[IrfanibnIsmail]

assalaamu alaikum

something which i came across.

Genesis 16:
11 You are going to have a son, and you will name him Ishamael, because the LORD has heard your cry of distress. 12 But your son will live like a wild donkey ; he will be against everyone ,and everyone will be aginst him. He will live apart from all his relatives.



Ibn kathir stories of the Prophet translated by Rafiq Abdur Rahman:
chapter: Sayyidina Ibrahim
sub heading: The birth of Ismail to Hajrah

According to the people of the Book, ............................... He foretold her that she would give birth to a son whom she should name Ismail. She thanked Allah for that for the angel had predicted that her son would be a strong man, his hand will be against everyone and their hands will be against him and he will possess all the lands of his brothers.



see the difference. The book Ibn kathir rahimahullah must have come across must be having original verse in place. anyone who has access to old manuscripts must must look into this.

[Aaron Zakariya]

The word donkey is not found in the KJV, but is found in other versions.

In KJV Genesis 16:12 is different from the one you posted. Here is the verse from KJV-

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

[Ali Al Hanafi]

Bismillah.


It is in Genesis 16 (New International Version)

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward [b] all his brothers."

http://www.biblegate..._...&version=31

[IrfanibnIsmail]

BBE(christian) translated it as:
And he will be like a mountain ass among men;


no "wild" in this.


Also see how the end part of it changes ;

"he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers." (NIV)


"and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. " (KJV)


"he will possess all the lands of his brothers."(Ibn Kathir)


From all of this the accurate should be the last one as it has been fulfilled.



anyone knows how to interpret this , "his hand will be against everyone and their hands will be against him " in favour of Ishmaeel alaihi salaam.

This post has been edited by IrfanibnIsmail: 04 February 2009 - 06:06 AM

[amar_labedi]

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

[IrfanibnIsmail]

MEANING OF GEN 16:12

AC 1948. Verse 12. And he shall be a wild-ass man; his hand against all, and the hand of all against him and he shall dwell against the faces of all his brethren.

"He shall be a wild-ass man," signifies rational truth, which is described; "his hand against all," signifies that it will wage war upon whatever is not true; "and the hand of all against him," signifies that falsities will fight back; "and he shall dwell against the faces of all his brethren," signifies that there will be continual contentions about matters of faith; but that nevertheless it will be a conqueror.

read more details:

http://www.biblemean...le/Genesis/ch16,v12-m.htm


wa salaam

This post has been edited by IrfanibnIsmail: 12 January 2010 - 09:16 AM

[IrfanibnIsmail]

for some unknown reason the link is getting cut off. just add the part
" ,v12-m.htm " to the link after accessing the link.

[IrfanibnIsmail]

MISTRANSLATION OF GEN 16:12 AS "WILD ASS"

Quote

we arrive at the following interpretation of Genesis 16:12:
...which means that what our Bible really says about Ishmael is:
 
"... he will be a fruitful man: his hand shall be with everyone, and every man's hand shall be with him..." (!!)

must read: http://www.ark-of-sa...ld_ass_2003.htm

[IrfanibnIsmail]

MISTRANSLATION OF "AND" TO "BUT" FOR EXCLUSIVE ISAAC(AS) ONLY COVENANT


CORRECT TRANSLATION

Gen 17:20. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21. AND my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.


WRONG TRANSLATION

Gen 17:20. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21. BUT my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.


details of translation & covenant:

http://www.ark-of-sa...venant_2003.htm

[Dawood ibn-Ibrahim]

As'Salaamu 3leikum wa'Rahmatullahi wa'Barakhatu.

I read Hebrew fluently, and I studied the Torah for many years (now a Muslim) - so I believe I can shed a lot of light on this subject. First, forget about the english translations of these verses, since they're all basically corrupt. Secondly, all translations of the Torah, and all Torah scrolls descend from what's called the Masoretic text, which is the least ancient Torah scrolls, compiled in the 9th and 10th centuries... In addition to the Masoretic text you also have the Samaritan text of the Torah. A quick overview as to who the Samaritan's are - they are Israelites from the northern tribes of Banni Israeel, but they are NOT Yehude. They do not call themselves Jews nor do their identity cards say they are... they're 'Banni Israeel,' or, Israelites. There's a big difference. Jews descended from one tribe, the tribe of Yehudha. Whereas you still have 11 more tribes (12 in all)...

It's very interesting when comparing the two verses of this text. I'm referring to the passage about Ishmael (as) in the Masoretic 'Jewish' Torah, as opposed to what's written in the Samaritans 'Israelite' Torah. Mind you, the Samaritans refer to the false state of Israel as Palestine, and they're not zionists. This verse is VERY important to me, my brothers. Because what we currently have translated into english is a total distortion of what the Hebrew Torah's really stating. Why is that? Because of the obvious Jewish bias against the Ishmaelites.

When speaking of Ishmael (as) the Masoretic 'Jewish' text says;

והוא יהיה פרא אדם ידו בכל ויד כל בו ועל־פני כל־אחיו ישׁכן׃

While the ST says:
והוא יהיה פרה אדם ידו בכל ויד כל בו ועל־פני כל־אחיו ישׁכן׃

To anyone who reads Hebrew you see an obvious contradiction between the same verse in the different Torah scrolls. You can see the difference and the bias. The MT makes him a wild ass, while the ST makes him fruitful. Howbeit the ST usually employs the full spellings as opposed to the defective.

ass is פֶּרֶא in the MT while it is פרה in the ST. If you take this as a defective, then the word פרה would be פורה in the full. This means that he was called a fruitful man, which would go along with the context of him being a great nation. The difference between 'ass' and 'fruitful' is ONE LETTER. It's like the difference between can and can't. The word ass is spelled Pey- Resh -Aleph. While the word fruitful is spelled Pey- Resh - Hey. The difference is the last letter of the word, from the letter Aleph to the letter Hey.

This is what disgusts me, the Jewish Publication Society's (JPS) English translations of the verse.

"And he shall be a wild ass of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.'"

First of all, the verse 'his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him,' is a blatant mistranslation of the Hebrew text. The Hebrew version of the text does not say anything negative about Ishmael (as) or his descendants. A literal reading of the passage says: His hand in everything and hand everything (in)… The translation has taken as a negative, “His hand will be against every man”. I wonder why an angel would try to encourage a mother with words like, “Everyone will be against your child!” It would be so out of character for the Torah to do this, since up until this verse, it speaks very highly of Ishmael (as). I think the promise was also economic, and matches the end of the verse. I would suggest the meaning to be, “His hands will be in everything, and mixed with many others." as in “He will be an enterprising youngster!” What could you say to a mother that would be more encouraging than “Your child will be wise in business!” and 'he shall dwell among his brethren' is referring to the fact that he would still dwell among the tents of Ibrahim, (as). Since this would have been a major concern for Hagar the Egyptian...

It's obvious the Jews changed the original word in this verse from פרה (fruitful) to פרא (ass).

Now, the correct translation of this verse into English would be;

והוא יהיה פרה אדם ידו בכל ויד כל בו ועל־פני כל־אחיו ישׁכן

"And he shall be a fruitful man, his strength with all, and the strength of all with him, and in the presence of his brethren he shall dwell."

If you look at this prophetically, this is true today, as the land of Ishmael is the leader of the world industrial revolution, being their strength (oil) is with every nation, and the strength (military power) is with them, as a form of protection. Allah (swt) made this promise to Hagar about Ishmael (as), and those verses have come true. Alhamdullilah. Knowledge is power.

Salaam,

Dawood

This post has been edited by Dawood ibn-Ibrahim: 24 May 2010 - 03:24 AM

[DutchSalik]

Salamu Alaikum Brother Dawud very interesting post check what i found on a Jewish Website they explicitly insult Prophet Ismael a.s

12. And he will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be upon all, and everyone's hand upon him, and before all his brothers he will dwell." יב. וְהוּא יִהְיֶה פֶּרֶא אָדָם יָדוֹ בַכֹּל וְיַד כֹּל בּוֹ וְעַל פְּנֵי כָל אֶחָיו יִשְׁכֹּן:
A wild donkey of a man: who loves the wilderness to hunt beasts, as it is written (below 21:20f):“And he was an archer; and he dwelt in the desert of Paran.” פרא אדם: אוהב מדברות לצוד חיות, כמו שכתוב (כא כ - כא) ויהי רובה קשת וישב במדבר פארן:
his hand will be upon all: [He will be] a bandit. — [from Tan. Shemot] ידו בכל: לסטים:
and everyone’s hand upon him: Everyone will hate him and attack him. ויד כל בו: הכל שונאין אותו ומתגרין בו:
and before all his brothers he will dwell: for his seed will be numerous. ועל פני כל אחיו ישכן: שיהיה זרעו גדול

http://www.chabad.or.../showrashi/true

This post has been edited by DutchSalik: 15 June 2010 - 08:41 PM

[ayesha.ansari]

Allah is great and only he can do this all. He send Ismael A.H as his messenger to tell people what is the right path.